VOY Dye Formulae in VOY (Star Trek Voyager) Forum

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VOY Dye Formulae

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Katswell		#81	[-]
Posts: 173 Apr 30 13 2:52 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yep, you got it! That and all of the other relevant odds and ends such as detergent, salt, piping hot water, etc.
Sparky		#82	[-]
Posts: 1232 May 6 13 11:04 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Kat, I have 2 new golds to send your way this week:
just james		#83	[-]
Posts: 135 May 7 13 10:16 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Kat - you mentioned "follow what Sparky suggested earlier for procedure". I've gone through the thread and did not see it. Any way of pointing me to it? I tried my hand at dying last night. I am using the RIT Proline powder and was having a tough time trying to find the right concentrations. I used the hot water on the stove method, detergent and salt. I stirred the mixture quite a while before putting in the damp swatch, but it still comes out mottled and has spots where solid bits got on the fabric. I presume you have been using liquid for your tests. Any pointers on dry? From the RIT site, 1 package of powdered is roughly equal to 1/2 bottle of liquid. I think I'll try mixing a bottle of concentrate and leave the powder in there bit to make sure it is completely dissolved. Is there any reason not to cut your yoke pieces and just dye those instead of yard of fabric at a time? I found this on the site and thought I would included it for future reference: Last Edited By: just james May 7 13 11:30 AM. Edited 1 times.
Katswell		#84	[-]
Posts: 173 May 7 13 8:13 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	@ Sparky: Those looks great, I can't wait to see them and compare them. @ James: Sorry, that was my mistake, here's the thread the proper procedures are mentioned in: http://starfleet1701st.yuku.com/topic/2480/search-White-Cotton-Lycra-VOY-Undertunic-process-dying?page=1 Check Sparky's posts numbered 16 and 20; he posted up all the relevant information you'll need to give it a shot. I hope to have all of my tests done and approved within the next month or two finances willing. And if I'm really lucky, all of my fashion fabrics dyed! There is also a source for the correct Cotton-Lycra you'll need for the undershirts there. Andy found that one for us! Also, are you dyeing wool gabardine (official fabric) or cotton twill (vegan/budget option)? I ask because wool requires a different method and care. As for liquid versus powder, I really prefer liquids as they're easier to work with (at least for me) and there seems to be less risk of bleeding and splotching on the fashion fabric. The only fabric I've dyed officially using the powder is the "Pearl Grey", anything else was just a test, like the Robert Blackman TNG Rit formulae. All of my upcoming tests will be with liquid dye. Last Edited By: Katswell May 7 13 8:16 PM. Edited 1 times.
just james		#85	[-]
Posts: 135 May 7 13 11:54 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks Kat. It's always appreciated. I am using the same 60/40 Andy found. I have mixed the powder using the prescribed amounts according to RIT to make them liquid form. I used the hottest water possible and have been shaking them all evening. I finally have it to where there are few solids left. It really does take some effort. I was only heating to 140 per RIT, but will move it up ti the 180. I am able to use the stove and plan to just do small batches. The teal is a bear. If you use too much, it's blue. dilute it, it's greenish. really crazy. The operations formula was really brown, so I went with a 1:1 1/2 tan/golden yellow that seems a little better to me.
just james		#86	[-]
Posts: 135 May 9 13 10:05 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Last night was a success. I heated the water to 180-200 F and constantly stirred. The result is an even, strong color. The formula I used for command was: 1 Tbs Cherry Red (liquid) 1 Tsp Wine (liquid) 1 Cup water salt & detergent I thought I had bought cocoa brown, but was mistaken. The result was very close to the samples in post #36 in this thread. That's great, but it just does not look as red as pictures. I presume that is mostly lighting. The Operations was a little different. I had mixed powder in water to simulate the RIT liquid versions. It is not the same. The concentration seems much. So, I adjusted the formula so: 3 Tbs Golden Yellow (dissolved powder) 1 1/2 Tbs Tan (dissolved powder) 1 Cup water salt & detergent I thought the 1: 1/2 ration would give me more yellow. The result was very similar to the uni color, post #6, second from the right. It has a very slight...greenish?...hue, also very similar to the Sulu sample in this thread. I was after something closer to the color in post #71. Time is running short though, so I may have to go with what I have. Neither looked like the colors that came as samples in the Rod.com “instructions”, which had a redder command and more tan operations. On the question about why not just cut your piece and dye it, I answered that last night. The ends become frayed and the shape gets a little distorted from the agitation. I neglected to serge the edges first, but after some pressing and serging, they seem to be fine. My next attempt will be for science/medical tonight. If I could get the color I see on my screen for straight RIT teal, I’d be happy or even slightly greener. So far, what I did produced very blue or very green.
just james		#87	[-]
Posts: 135 May 10 13 10:10 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Dyeing is quite a learning process. I did my science/medical last night, roughly 4oz of material. I decided to try RIT#226 - Ultramarine since I want a little more green than blue. Kelly Green is VERY strong and easily over powers the teal so you need very little. I increased my water to 6 cups because that's what the pot would hold. The color was lovely, but not dark/saturated enough. So here is what I've learned so far: The formulas are based on the liquid dyes on cotton broadcloth for roughly 1oz (one) of material. The powder to liquid ratio is 1:4 so you need roughly 1/4 less powder. This is the reason my samples had been completely saturated. Given all that, I needed the following: 2 Tbs Teal (powder) 2 Tsp Kelly Green (powder) 2 Tbs salt 2 Tsp det 8 cups of water I only complicated things predissolvingthe dye in water which may or may not have given me the same concentration as premade liquid. If the water is hot enough you should be able to dissolve the powder completely. Agitating the bath for a full 30 minutes ensures an even color. Now I just need to solve the operations conundrum. I don't believe the 1:1 ratio is correct for my fabric type. The two I think would work better for me are: RIT#48 (Yellow 2) 1/4 Tsp Tan 1 Tbs Golden Yellow 1 Cup Water or RIT#125 or #126 1 Tbs Golden Yellow 1/4 Tsp Sunshine Orange (1/2 Tsp #126) 1 Cup Water Last Edited By: just james May 14 13 11:47 AM. Edited 1 times.
just james		#88	[-]
Posts: 135 May 14 13 11:51 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The RIT Teal straight out of the bottle is pretty green. There really should be no need to add green for any of the series I think. I redid the science adding some blue and I think I have a winner. Unfortunately I was dying over the lighter shade of green, so I don't really have a formula. For the operations, I did RIT#48, doubled the concntration for a rich color and added a smidge more tan. When using tan, you need to get the water really hot and stir it until all is well dissolved, then stir it some more. The red and blue flecks will show un on lighter colors mixes like this yellow.
Sparky		#89	[-]
Posts: 1232 May 21 13 10:44 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Kat, been very busy/distracted lately, but finally remembered to send out the new golds to you late last week. You should be getting them almost anytime now. Looking forward to seeing how they compare.
Katswell		#90	[-]
Posts: 173 May 21 13 5:04 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hope everything is well on your end Sparks, maybe this will help brighten everyone's day: Pictured above are the latest samples that arrived in today's post. As you can see, "VOY-Gold-001-04" (top) is a bit bright and photographs alot more "lemon" like than it appears to the regular eye. "VOY-Gold-002-04" (bottom) photographs nearly identical to the screen-used gabardine. However, to the regular eye, it's a bit darker than the gabardine... However, to save you more headache, let me bring two things to the table for consideration: 1. My uniform is almost 19 years old and who can really say when the last time it was dry cleaned? It is a supernumerary's uniform and therefore may not have recieved the same care as a principal actor's uniform would and considering that supernumerary uniforms see alot more stunt and dirty work, it could be faded slightly from its original colour. Who can safely say? My money is on the production wrapping up Voyager, striking the sets to make way for Enterprise and putting all of the Voyager related props and wardrobe in storage without so much as a dust-off and thus we have "weathered" unis... So for all we know, you could have the perfect colour that matches what my uniform looked like way back in '95. 2. Also consider that even screen used uniforms, what we understandably strive to replicate with 100% accuracy, are often variable in their colouring... If I were to call up anyone with a OPS Class B from anywhere in the Class B run, I would bet my screen used uniform that there'd be a signifigant variance. (I vaguely remember posting a picture of a similar topic somewhere around here.) Your #2 sample is so within striking distance of my screen used uniform that I'd say it's within an acceptable variance. If you want to tweak it, I wouldn't blame you. But if you keep it as is, I still wouldn't blame you. Your work is highly commendable. 3. Also, going into further detail on my #2 point, consider that my 1:1 RIT formula is slightly different from my screen used... Perhaps it's chemical, or I didn't use enough dye or too much or perhaps it's because it's cotton twill and not the real deal... It could be any number of those things, but when you see them next to each other or photograph them, they look pretty darn close. So personally, I'm sticking with my 1:1 formula. It really does get mind numbingly complicated, I'll say that. It's photomatch versus eyematch and nothing's ever set in stone there... For what it's worth, I really think you've got it with the #2 swatch... It looks beautiful to me. Here are some pictures in natural room lighting (the above was under a desk lamp that I've photographed all the other samples under) (The #1 swatch) (And the #2) Like I said, they photo differently in different light conditions (and my camera is rubbish) but I really like the #2 swatch. As for the #1 Swatch, I'd like to dare a guess that it would make a nice Class A OPS, but I'm no expert. Still, I'll try and match it with RIT for my Class A since I like the colour so much. And if I may ask, do you have the various departments matched from TNG, VOY, and FC? I ask because I'm curious to see swatches of your closest matches for each department from the 3 eras. I'd like to try and use them as a reference point for my RIT project that I hope to have done by no later than end of June. Would it be okay to ask for you to post me any spare swatches you have so I could have a working reference point? If you can of course. I know RIT is far from perfect but it's simple for me to use and commonly available and I'd like to try and get the closest matches to your Pro-grade coloured swatches as possible using grocery store dye. Anyway, like I said above, great job on the swatches! Hopefully, we'll all have definitive work done on this by summer's end! Here's hoping! Last Edited By: Katswell May 21 13 5:09 PM. Edited 1 times.
The Admirable		#91	[-]
Posts: 7058 May 21 13 5:57 PM SF1701st President Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I like #2 as well Kat. Yes, matching exactly and everytime is nearly impossible (unless you dye a large quantity so that there's more of one shade out there) but that's why those shades that fall within a variance of teh real thing is good. A few shades lighter or darker of the original is fine. To my eye and monitor, #2 looks a tad richer in colour compared to your actual uni, but would work I think. You might also try photographing in ambient natural light and sunlight too. And if you have access to studio or stage lighting, that would provide another perspective too. And yes, the age of care of the original is a factor too, but that's where variance can be a benefit too. To your eye, if the uni colour looks good, then its good to use as a base. If Sparky's match and your Rit match works, then if you both are agreed, then we have the gold VOY/DS9 Ops/Eng/Sec dye formulae! What say you both? Steve
composeralex		#92	[-]
Posts: 939 May 21 13 8:57 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	It looks really good to me! However, to me, Katswell, the opposite seems to be the case for #2 - that is, your uniform looks a bit darker than Sparky's swatch. Weird, eh? And Steve, I concur - the swatch does look a bit more rich in color than the original. But like Katswell mentioned, it is a somewhat aged and perhaps unkempt uniform, so, combined with what we know about STAR TREK uniform colors typically being very color-saturated, who's to say that his original uniform didn't look like that a couple decades ago? I think it perhaps having faded a bit is definitely within the realm of reasonable possibility. Just my two cents! Alex Beard Original music for movies and TV! www.alexbeardmusic.com
Sparky		#93	[-]
Posts: 1232 May 21 13 9:59 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Given the variance seen in the 4 VOY gold screen used unis here, and how well #2 photographed against Kat's uni, I'm content to call this one done - although I would be interested in seeing them photographed under daylight, etc. for confirmation. Another thing to bear in mind is that these swatches are on cotton twill and the uni is, of course, wool gabardine. That may explain why they photograph differently. I can now use my copy of the #2 swatch as a reference in developing an acid dye recipe for use on wool. Swatch #1 would not likely make a for a good Class A, as the originals are actually darker than the Swatch #2. So far I've nailed the FC/ENT red, getting close on the TNG red and VOY red shouldn't be too far behind. I think I've got the TNG/FC gold, but I need to arrange for confirmation against something screen used. You've already got the RIT dye recipe for TNG blue, but I haven't even started to formulate one for use with Fiber Reactive or Acid Dyes. The FC/ENT green has been very difficult to nail down. I think that I should have clippings of the FC/ENT red on twill and the TNG/FC/ENT gold on twill and cotton lycra still loitering about. I can send you some of those, if you don't mind that they're a bit small... I want to thank you Kat for your kind words and for helping me out with this.
Katswell		#94	[-]
Posts: 173 May 22 13 3:28 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	My pleasure Sparks, always happy to help. As for the swatches, I'd be very grateful for anything you can send, big or small, 100% accurate or 90%, etc. Anything that will help nudge my RIT work into the right direction. I'm positive that RIT can't get within the range of your professional grade but if it can get within say 90% then I'd be satsified. I'm sure it has at least that potential. I'm looking forward to seeing you tackle the FC Sciences, as I've tinkered with it in passing and found it to be a tough customer. Thanks again.
Katswell		#95	[-]
Posts: 173 May 25 13 1:29 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Beginning to do some pricing and rounding up of all the relevant odds and ends for the testing. Would a 5 gallon stock pot be large enough for fabric to move freely and evenly? I can't seem to find anything larger than a 20qt at local stores and paying 80 dollars or more for a cookware I won't be doing actual cooking in is a bit out of my range. The most fabric I ever intend on colouring at a time is 3 yards, I can get away with 1yd increments per bath for several Trek related items, but I'd like the option of a higher capacity for any other projects. Another question that comes to mind is the temperature and immersion time needed for the dye fixative, same as regular dye bath for each factor? Or do I add it into the bath itself?
composeralex		#96	[-]
Posts: 939 May 25 13 5:37 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Katswell, that should be plenty large. I picked up a 4-gallon, stainless steel stock pot last year at Wal-Mart for about $16, and I dyed two 3-yard cuts of osnaburg with relative ease. It was a bit snug, and there was a bit of sloshing, but it worked fine (I used Dharma dye). A 5-gallon would only be better. Alex Beard Original music for movies and TV! www.alexbeardmusic.com
composeralex		#97	[-]
Posts: 939 May 25 13 5:41 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Oh, and Sparky, that's exciting news! Alex Beard Original music for movies and TV! www.alexbeardmusic.com
Katswell		#98	[-]
Posts: 173 May 28 13 3:28 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks Alex, that's good to know and much appreciated! Also, just a quick update here: I will have all the finances required to set up and start in 3 weeks from now. Then I can finally start this project! My updated goal is to have this done by mid July at the latest. Since I'm doing immersion tests of 2, 4, 8 and 16 minutes for each option, it's going to take a bit of time for even one colour option, but I have to be absolutely certain and keep all options open. Everything is to be meticulously noted and measured as always and I'll update with photos whenever possible to keep everyone posted on the colour progress. I'll be focusing mainly on the 2360 to 2373 era colours, but I do have a few other bonuses for other eras that I happened upon by luck. In the meantime, I have a few preliminary questions: * Is there a difference between the $6.99 "Solid White Twill" and the $12.99 "Classic Twill" at Joanne Fabrics? I ask because the price difference is helpful and I'm already spending a sizeable chunk as is and any money I can save will help. I'm curious to know if there would be any dyeing difference with the two fabrics. As for the Dye Fixative, I'm wondering if it too should be heated to the 180-200 range? I immerse the coloured fabric in the fixative bath after I've rinsed it clean with the hose, is this correct procedure? What would be a proper immersion time for the fixative? The bottle says 20 minutes and I've done so in a test batch and it seemed fine. Finally, will this negatively affect the final colour outcome in anyway? If I've rinsed all excess dye off the fabric, I would imagine it wouldn't. I appreciate everyone's help and suggestions. Can't wait to get these swatches done and see what we can do!
Sparky		#99	[-]
Posts: 1232 May 28 13 6:10 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Re: Rit Dye Fixative - According to: http://laundry.about.com/od/productreview1/fr/Rit-Liquid-Dye-And-Rit-Dye-Fixative-About-Com-Laundry-Guide-Product-Review.htm A companion product to Rit Dye is Rit Dye Fixative. This laundry treatment is designed to reduce color bleeding in fabrics. It is recommended for fabric dyed with Rit Dye and for commercially dyed washable fabrics. For best results, the Rit Dye Fixative should be used immediately after dyeing fabrics. The fixative is added to a hot water wash cycle and the fabric should remain in the solution for at least twenty minutes. The fabric then goes through a cold water rinse and then dried. If used in a washer, the machine should be cleaned immediately with hot water and detergent to ensure that no dye is left in the machine that would stain future laundry loads. While Rit Dye Fixative helps fabrics hold their color, it does not completely prevent dye transfer or loss from fabrics. Any non-colorfast or dyed fabrics should always be washed separately and in cold water. I would also highly recommend reading over these two pages: http://www.pburch.net/dyeing/allpurposedye.shtml http://www.pburch.net/dyeing/directdye.shtml Given that RIT/Direct dyes require a minimal amount of time to set, to save yourself a boatload of headache, I would suggest changing your dye variable from 'immersion time' to the amount of dye added to the dye bath as a percentage of the weight of the fabric being dyed (a.k.a. "Depth of Shade") - this is how it is handled using Acid and Fiber Reactive dyes. Forgive the reference, but calculating 'Depths of Shade' is covered here: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/determining-the-depth-of-your-dye-shade.html
Sparky		#100	[-]
Posts: 1232 Jun 5 13 6:33 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	This is the dye recipe I used to achieve the VOY-GOLD-002 swatch seen above on cotton twill which proved to be a favorable match to Katswell's screen-used uni: (using ProChem MX dyes) 96% - #104 GOLDEN YELLOW 01% - #308 FUCHSIA 03% - #406 INTENSE BLUE Dyed at a 4% Depth of shade (applied twice) (Dyes from Pro Chemical and Dye, although equivalents from other vendors can be found here: http://www.pburch.net/dyeing/FAQ/pureMXcolors.shtml#table1 Last Edited By: Sparky Jun 5 13 6:39 PM. Edited 1 times.

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